Proof that Science is a Religion

Zagros: Why is it that you don't accept intelligent design?

Scientist: We hold that all supernatural causes are not part of science.

Zagros: So, therefore, if something is supernatural, then it is not science, correct?

Scientist: That is correct.

Zagros: And, science holds, matter is neither created nor destroyed.

Scientist: That is an oversimplification because it has to be in a closed system and . . .

Zagros: Okay, but generally speaking, it is true, and if I am talking about the universe as a system, then can we accept it as a basic premise?

Scientist: Well, not exactly, it is the law of conservation of mass, not matter, they are different.

Zagros: I am a little confused.

Scientist: That is because you are not a physicist.

Zagros: Okay, fine, then mass is a universal constant.

Scientist: Well, in a closed system . . .

Zagros: What happens in an open system.

Scientist: Well, since energy can escape in an open system, we can lose mass.

Zagros: Wait a minute, I thought you were talking about mass, where did energy come about?

Scientist: I don't have time to explain it all but energy equals mass times the constant (speed of life) squared.

Zagros: Einstein's theory of relativity says that mass can be converted into energy.

Scientist: Well, actually it states that they are equivalent through this formula.

Zagros: Okay, now, then how about me? If mass is neither created nor destroyed, then the mass that is me has always existed, right, but I was born on . . .

Scientist: Okay, I see where you are going here. That is an incorrect assumption. Your mass was neither created nor will it be destroyed on your death, it is mere reconfigured.

Zagros: So, what you are are really saying is that everything that is me is something called mass that was reconfigured from somewhere else and then become me?

Scientist: Yes, you take in mass (food) and that mass is transformed into energy and that energy fuels your growth (mass)...

Zagros: But that implies that energy is not mass, so wasn't energy created by destroying mass. I'm a little confused.

Scientist: Well, in a closed system, energy may be converted to mass. It is documented in Einstein's Theory of Relativity: E=MC².

Zagros: Whatever. So what created mass?

Scientist: Excuse me?

Zagros: Yeah, what created mass. I mean it had to come from somewhere, right?

Scientist: No, it is neither created nor destroyed.

Zagros: So then mass is God.

Scientist: Where do you get that from?

Zagros: Well, it has always existed, right? It reconfigures into various stuff, right? Isn't that God?

Scientist: But God is a supremely intelligent being that configures the universe.

Zagros: So, you admit that there is a God.

Scientist: No, I am telling you what God is.

Zagros: That requires that you admit that God exists.

Scientist: No, I am telling you that the concept of God is such that . . .

Zagros: And this can be proven scientifically?

Scientist: No, this is the concept of God as given by religion . . .

Zagros: I don't accept that.

Scientist: What?

Zagros: I don't accept that. I only accept what science provides. I just defined God scientifically as the uncreated mass. I said nothing about intelligence -- you did.

Scientist: Fine, but every other person in the world . . .

Zagros: I am not every other person in the world. I am me and I say that the universe is God. After all, God is everywhere and in everything.

Scientist: How do you know that?

Zagros: God told me.

Scientist: How?

Zagros: Does it matter?

Scientist: Yes, it does, because I want to know . . .

Zagros: What? If I believe in the Bible, the Qu'ran, the Torah?

Scientist: Exactly.

Zagros: Why?

Scientist: So I can show you the error of your statement.

Zagros: How?

Scientist: By demonstrating to you that the Bible, the Qu'ran, etc. do not have a God like that.

Zagros: Oh really? So, give me an example of my error.

Scientist: Well, God grants prayers.

Zagros: Did I say that?

Scientist: But those books say that.

Zagros: Okay, define "granting a prayer".

Scientist: You ask and God causes something to happen that otherwise would not have happened.

Zagros: So, that would make me God then right? Because, through prayer, I can command God to . . .

Scientist: No! None of your books say that you can command God to do anything!

Zagros: Okay, so prayer is useless, so . . .

Scientist: No! Your books suggest that God answers some prayers . . .

Zagros: Oh, so God is picky and choosy about which prayers to answer. They answer my prayers but not yours, right?

Scientist: Whatever.

Zagros: How about God does answer all prayers? God answers 'yes' to some, 'no' to others, and 'you have got to be kidding' to the rest.

Scientist: Okay, that's fine.

Zagros: Then science says that a scientist prays to God and he grants them but he only grants some prayers to believers.

Scientist: What?!? Where the hell did you get that idea from! Scientists don't pray!

Zagros: Because you are atheists?

Scientist: No! Some of us are and some of us aren't . . .

Zagros: So some of you pray and others don't is what you are saying.

Scientist: Yes, and . . .

Zagros: So God grants the prayers of the scientists who are believers . . .

Scientist: No, scientists don't pray . . .

Zagros: But I thought you said they did.

Scientist: No! Scientists do not pray as scientists. They may pray as religious people but not as scientists.

Zagros: Okay, only the prayers offered by the atheistic and theistic scientists who are praying as scientists are answered and those offered by them as religious people are not.

Scientists: You aren't listening. We aren't praying as scientists!

Zagros: Oh really? What is a prayer?

Scientist: It is a request to God to do something.

Zagros: You mean, . . . like an experiment?

Scientist: No, you have to get down on your knees, close your eyes, and . . .

Zagros: I don't pray that way.

Scientist: Well, however, you do, you have to ask for divine intervention and . . .

Zagros: I don't pray that way.

Scientist: Well, then, how do you pray?

Zagros: I pray by doing things and God's will be done.

Scientist: No, your will be done.

Zagros: But God is everywhere and in everything, so God's will be done.

Scientist: But God is intelligent and . . .

Zagros: And you are saying that I am not?

Scientist: I have serious doubts. Wait a minute: are you saying that you are God?

Zagros: I didn't say that.

Scientist: Yes, you did. I can play your game too! You implied...

Zagros: I did not state. Your implication is that because I implied, I am.

Scientist: Okay, I will grant you that but . . .

Zagros: No buts. I am no more God than you are.

Scientist: So then I am God, you are saying, as well.

Zagros: I did not state that either. I am simply stating that you and I are expressions of God's will. After all, we were made by God and God knows everything, so therefore whatever God wills, will happen.

Scientist: But I thought we have free will.

Zagros: You do, as far as you are concerned but God knows in advance what you will do.

Scientist: So I do not have free will.

Zagros: No, you do.

Scientist: But God knows what I will do so...

Zagros: Hmm... let me use science to explain it to you.

Scientist: Huh?

Zagros: Yes, does a quantum have free will?

Scientist: Of course not.

Zagros: Okay but if I observe the quantum does it change its behavior?

Scientist: Yes, that is the observer effect in quantum mechanics.

Zagros: So, my will (action of observing) caused the quantum to change.

Scientist: I guess but that is a proof of determinism, not free will.

Zagros: So, my will be done. But how is it determinism?

Scientist: Because your will determined that it would change.

Zagros: So I determined where it would go, so I can determine where it will be in . . .

Scientist: No, you cannot. Quantum mechanics says that one cannot predict . . .

Zagros: Oh! So quantum have free will since the quantum determines . . .

Scientist: (sigh) What does this have to do with . . .

Zagros: So, quantums have free will in a deterministic system and scientists pray to God to get . . .

Scientist: Wait a minute. Scientists don't pray to God.

Zagros: But you said that some do . . .

Scientists: They don't pray to God as scientists!

Zagros: Yes, they do.

Scientist: No, they don't.

Zagros: Yes, they do.

Scientist: No, they don't. Look, you cannot prove anything through argumentum ad nauseum.

Zagros: I agree, but scientists do pray to God when they conduct experiments.

Scientists: No, they don't.

Zagros: They do through their actions, they are praying that the actions will occur....

Scientists: Stop right there. We know this to work because of cause and effect.

Zagros: And this is different from prayer, how?

Scientists: Well, it always happens, for one, provided all initial conditions are the same and the activity is replicated precisely.

Zagros: Okay, so when scientists pray, they have a ritualistic prayer (experiment) that must be precisely undertaken to generate the result (what they hope to achieve).

Scientist: It isn't a prayer!

Zagros: How so? Is the rain dance a prayer?

Scientist: Yes.

Zagros: Why is it undertaken?

Scientist: To get rain to fall.

Zagros: How does it work?

Scientist: It doesn't work. It is just a stupid superstition.

Zagros: So science maintains that prayers of all other religions are just stupid superstitions, while their prayers to their one true God (nature) are not.

Scientist: You are hopeless.

Zagros: Why thank you. Luckily science isn't according to you, since you obviously believe in it.

Scientist: The difference is that even if you don't believe, it happens.

Zagros: Wow! What a powerful prayer! Even a non-scientist can do it!

Scientist: It isn't prayer!

Zagros: Why do you say that?

Scientist: Because it isn't! Look, darn it! We don't have a God that rewards the good and punishes the wicked!

Zagros: Yes, you do.

Scientist: No, we don't.

Zagros: Sure, if you violate God's laws, you sin and you are punished, right?

Scientist: Finally, we are getting somewhere.

Zagros: So, when you violate a physical law, you are punished, right?

Scientist: You cannot violate a physical law.

Zagros: Wow! You do have a powerful God!

Scientist: Nature isn't a God!

Zagros: Okay, so when you ignore a physical law, you are punished. Like walking off a cliff, you are punished for attempting to disobey the law of gravity.

Scientist: You really are hopeless.

Zagros: And you really have a religion.